In the wake of nationwide civil unrest following the murder of George Floyd, Phillip is interviewing local black leaders and activists to provide insight, inspiration, and courage in these unsettling times. In this episode, Phil speaks with the Rev. Ron Rawls, Pastor of St. Paul AME Church in St. Augustine, Florida. Hear Rev. Rawls offer a powerful and provocative theological justification for meeting force with force when necessary to defend oneself vis-à-vis the violence inherent in white supremacy and the recent civil unrest within our nation.